[Katrina Brown]

I would appreciate some help. I am the Raiser's Edge administrator but am definitely not a database administrator. The technical side is handled by the college's IT department. I have been asking for them to install updates for some time and keep getting told they don't have time. We have a consultant who was supposed to come get us updated an do some cleanup but it doesn't look like that will happen.

What I want to get a sense of is how long it would take to do the updates. We are a pretty small office. Raiser's Edge is installed on 6 computers total.

Would someone be willing to give me a rough ballpark of the staff time involved in updating. I do know our IT department is very busy but if the time commitment isn't TOO big maybe I can go back and plead my case again.

We are currently on version 7.71.936.0033 Build 936.

Thank you

Katrina, updates are not that difficult, although some updates take longer to do than others. At my previous employer, our IT department allowed me to come down and do the updates. At my current job, IT does the updates.

Here are some tips that might make things easier for you.

Go to the Blackbaud website and download the update and patch. Save to a CD or DVD. Give this to your IT department along with basic instructions for updating. I would also send the request via email and CC the IT director.

"The Foundation needs their Raiser's Edge application updated. I have forwarded the update file and patch file to you on CD via interoffice mail. Below are the instructions for installation. Since this is very important, please let me know if you will be unable to complete by Friday, March 21."

I would then forward the email to them again about 3 days before the deadline. "Thank you for helping us with this installation. It is very important that we have this done by this Friday. Please let me know if you have any questions, or would like me to come down and assist. I am more than happy to."

Here are the steps for updating:
Send me an email about 15 minutes before you plan to begin and I will confirm that all users are logged out of Raiser's Edge. From the server that Raiser's Edge is installed, double-click the downloaded file to start the installation wizard, then follow the prompts. Install to the default locations. Once installation begins, no other interaction is needed. RE will confirm when it is completed. Reboot is not required

Here are the steps for installing latest cumulative patch:
Double click the installation file to start the installation wizard, then follow the prompts. Install to the default locations. Once installation is complete, log into the Raiser's Edge on the server to update the database. Choose the default options. Once the patch update begins, no interaction is needed. RE will confirm when it is complete.

After that is done, just verify that database backup schedule is still setup properly. Open the Blackbaud Management Console, select Backup, Click Schedule Backup, choose a daily frequency if not already set. Click Finish.

FYI: Installation requires very little interaction, but can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours, depending on the update version. IT really just needs to start the installation, walk away and come back and check to see if it is done. Downloading the installation on a CD beforehand can save them time and hopefully get them to stop dragging their feet.

A. Hasim Hakim
Donor Systems Specialist
WakeMed Foundation

[Dan Larson]

Hi Katrina,

I work in IT and have done many upgrades and updates in the past but honestly Raiser's Edge has been the most problematic for me.

I scheduled our 7.80 to 7.82 upgrade at 5pm and was here until 10pm.

The server side upgrade and patch was fairly simple - except I needed to upgrade our SQL Server 2000 to SP4 (that was in the documentation, but I missed it). Anyways, the server took about 45 min. (it's not the fastest box in town).

The real problem came with the client PCs! Somehow, the deploy.ini didn't get properly updated, so when I tried to get the client PCs to "detect" the new version of RE (by launching RE) they wouldn't and instead would try to install a local instance of SQL 2005 Express!!

After I re-copied the deploy.ini over to the deploy folder and tried again - it would no longer look to the server, so I had to manually force the install (which isn't hard, you just type \\servername\REfoldershare\setup.exe at a command prompt and off you go).

Finally, I found that if Outlook is open, the upgrade will fail (on the server OR on the clients) - so you'll definitely want to make sure you close that.

Once the initial upgrade is finished on the client PCs, all the installer windows close and the end-users get their desktop back. But as soon as you launch RE again, it detects the patch that you probably installed after the upgrade, and begins another install routine.

I took me so long because I manually went around to everyone's PC here in our main office - but we have a number of development officers that work offsite and that involved a lot of hand holding over the phone.

No fun.

Katrina, I agree with Dan. If your IT department is also responsible for upgrading the individual workstations then it could take a while. For us, the server side upgrade has always gone smoothly and is more predictable. Updating the multiple workstations is a whole other story. It requires a lot of patience and can become problematic. At my office, I am responsible for doing the workstation updates. IT is just responsible for doing the server side upgrade.

A. Hasim Hakim
Donor Systems Specialist
WakeMed Foundation

[SimonKoppel]

There's a whole stage that no-one's mentioned yet, which is testing and documenting.

What processes are you and the other users doing that will be different after the upgrade? What will look different for the users, and have you documented this for them? When you go to the new version, what new functionality will be available, and do you know how you're going to use it? Have you tested that you'll still be able to do everything - for example, linking up to Office correctly? Are there any changes that will be needed to the server (as per Dan's email) and will there be any costs involved in that? Do you have any bespoke processes - for example in VBA - that might be broken by the upgrade. Will all of your queries and exports still work the same? Vitally importantly, do you have a rollback plan in place in case anything goes wrong with the upgrade.

It's not as simple as just downloading and installing the upgrade - in many ways, that's the easy bit.

[mwittman]

Katrina, some good comments here to digest. I'll just add this:

We're a college, and like you, I manage RE/BBNC but not the machines running the Blackbaud software on the server side nor anything hard core on others workstations.

Our IT DBA needs about 5-10 minutes per work station for typical RE upgrades—not sure how long the server upgrade usually takes (guess: 30 minutes).

However, we've had much grief on our Address Accelerator (Canada) updates because of Windows file system permissions issues—most workstations do not have local admin rights, yet the add-on (not unheard of in the commercial software market) expects to run as administrator, or something to that effect.

In this scenario, we've found that the permissions on the directory that contains the program files has to be explicitly set each time an update is installed. So, over all, our average time requirement has been over the 5-10 minutes I first mentioned.


Simon's point is well take, though. The hard part is how and how much testing should one do before diving in. We have a test workstation which transacts with a test database on the server side. We don't have any VBA/API-based customizations, so mainly what we test is a donation data entry/processing sequence.

All the best with your relationship with IT on this front - I hope they come to realize how vital their role is on this one.

I'm fortunate to have a great relationship with our IT team, and they dutifully keep RE/BBNC patched and running even though the software install/upgrades present unique challenges - this sounds trite, but working together on it has been key.

[trlinde]

AS others have mentioned, it doesn't take long to run the updates. The patch part is minimal. Even if the SQL has to be updates, that is usually handled in the patch itself.
Only problem we had was when the folks at Blackbaud had configured our server. (before I was here). They had put the FE & RE servers on the same partition as the OS !! So not enough room for updates eventually. Did get the Database moved to another partition to free up room.
Figure about an hour may for the server and 15-20 minutes for each client, just run from the deploy directory. So depends on your network speed. We only have 4 users on FE and I usually update all at the same time.
We've got an older dual processor box, but are trying to get it all moved to a new dual quad core box. Should run well then. It's just getting the details of moving it all over from one server to another from Blackbaud. They tend to be a little cryptic when it comes to giving out the answers.
Oh, you also have to check the website regularly for patches. For some reason they tend not to notify you of them.

[JoeSullivan]

I work in IT in a small office and have done several Raiser's Edge updates. Usually the patches go very quickly but the updates take longer (especially if there is a patch for the update). It really does depend on the update and I'm sure your IT department is, as it should be, assuming the worst-case scenario. We had one weekend of updates that failed and we ended up having to install Windows Vista around the office to fix the problem. So, basically, it could be quick and it could go long.

Here's my advice for you coming from an IT perspective:
We don't like to do potential updates just for the sake of doing an update. If we did patches everytime a patch came out our weekends would be nothing but installing updates. I would look at the release notes and show the IT department exactly what updates are needed. If it's especially one that is causing more work or is causing inacuracies or corruption they will be more motivated to do the update.

[rperry]

Hi Katrina and others
You are all so lucky - At University of Wollongong, our RE is installed on a centrally managed server which is great as far as back-ups and security and firewalls. But, every time I want to update, for some obscure reasons, our IT deparment always wants to migrate RE to a different server, then there will be problems with SQL server and other applications hosted on the server. I have been waiting since Novemeber!!!!

[nisaac]

It sounds to me that the issue is buy in. I don't work in a large environment, but I have done so before. An IT department should understand where your updates fall in their priority list. I know I'm talking "should and could" type scenarios, but try to negotiate a service level agreement with the person in charge of IT support.

It is true that the the updates are usually quite easy; however, this is so in a controlled environment where decisions and changes include dicussions of how all applications are affected. The best case scenario I think would be to have one IT person be aware of the Blackbaud products enough to understand the necessity for updates, the environment, and your part in the update.

I'm IT and I know this is easier said than done....

[Nina Williams]

I found that a dozen donuts given to our IT guys gets me what I need!

[Don Sabo]

Being an I.T. guy I resemble that remark. Any type of free food will always get the job done much faster! This is the first thing that we learn in I.T school.

[JoeSullivan]

Do what we do - bring in an Xbox 360, order pizza, and tell your IT department it's a lan party. Seriously, though, when we have updates to perform, we (IT) make an evening out of it and actually have fun. :-0

Maybe we're weird or lucky or both.

[Katrina Brown]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Sounds like there is alot more to it than I was aware of. The idea of testing and being prepared for a roll back never occurred to me.

Maybe I will print out the comments and go back down to IT and talk to them again about how we can get this rolling. My husband works in the IT dept here and does the updates for the enterprise system and I know he sometimes ends up pulling unexpected long nights. Everyone here at the college seems to think the connection gets me a magic pass for IT support but it hasn't worked that way yet.

One of the features that I see is now available is the ability to tie relationships to funds. I have been tasked with establishing a process to forward thank you notes from scholarship recipients to the contact person for each scholarship. I think being able to establish the relationships should make it all easier.

Again thank you for the help.

[bluetrain1]

As an IT guy I need one basic question answered before I even consider doing an upgrade. Why do you need this upgrade? Unless you can articulate EXACTLY what mission critical features and benefits will be provided by an upgrade then I would say "If it ain't broke don't fix it!"
So, if you can clearly and intelligently speak to the differences between the two versions then we can at least have a conversation regarding a well planned and scheduled upgrade.

[nisaac]

Katrina, it sounds like you really want to make this work with the IT department. I've never had to roll back to a previous application, but I have had to spend days oin conversations with BB support. The difference in our shop is that I'm IT and I'm in charge of the databases. I do the custom reporting as well as maintain the applications. This way I don't have to convince myself when an update is needed and I'm the one who has to answer for the issues that come up due to the update.

With RE installed on 6 computers, I would think you could work out a shared responsibility upgrade. If IT does the update on the server, you will test to see any problems and you would be the contact with BB support to find out what is the issue. Sometimes it is just a learning thing and sometimes another patch is needed.

Hopefully, you have the authority to recommend a patch and don't have to explain why you need it. Normally, many IT people wouldn't understand your requirements for daily processing because it is not in their realm of responsibilities. So, I'd recommend getting authority to make the official request, understanding the impact on the application, working out a plan with IT that really only asks them to upgrade the server, managing the upgrades to the workstations yourself (doesn't take long) and you being the liason with support on any issues that arise.

I find that Blackbaud support is excellent in helping to address issues arising from upgrades or patches. I can speak from both sides and if there is a major issue, it is usually another patch that will fix it.

It's a team effort - and as you've heard above - food helps.